Close

User Tag List

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    derf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Washington, PA
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    97SC2 5sp --slipping in 3rd, 4th, 5th is Intermittent

    You guys already know I've purchased all the parts to do my clutch.

    One thing lingers in my mind:

    Why is the slipping so intermittent?

    There is a particular uphill highway on ramp that I use several days a week.
    When the slippage began, it was from 4th to 5th --I was not above 3k RPM when shifting and I actually let up on the throttle when shifting if the car is going fast enough for the gear I'm shifting into to "handle it" (not bog). I'm not a clutch burner. Anyway, instead of immediately settling into 5th gear with the expected rpm drop, the rpms hung and slowly dropped as 5th engaged fully. However, once in 5th on the on ramp, trying to accelerate made the clutch slip as the RPMS rose and the car began to lose power. I had to baby accelerate it onto the highway then get up to speed. Rest of trip uneventful.

    Next time it happened, same on ramp, but happened on 3-4, then 4-5 shift (sequential shift sequence)
    Third time, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5. Once landed in 3rd, 4th, and/or 5th, clutch would slip upon attempts to moderately accelerate.

    After 5 min on highway, get off at exit, then try like hell to get the clutch to slip by undergearing the car on equally steep upgrades-no dice.
    Try to get it to slip under hard acceleration in proper gear on same rolling hill inclines on return trip--no dice.

    Have baby shifted my way to the offending on ramp in the dad of winter to see if clutch was slipping when extremely cold (yes it was of course partially heated up internally) -- laid my foot into it ---no dice.

    No burning smell (clutch)
    Tranny fluid full



    Could this be a case of
    1) the clutch not fully engaging due to the fingers on the clutch weakening such that the clutch disc is intermittently not being held up against the flywheel with sufficient force (and slippage occurs)?
    2) A SLOW rear main seal leak that, because of the incline of the on ramp, deposits oil sitting there on the clutch disc, producing temporary slippage until it is burned off by the heat of the environment?
    3) The clutch plate actually being worn? I would think I would have many more frequent slippage if that were the case.
    4) The flywheel becoming glazed, and if the clutch starts to engage at just the right spot, there is excessive slippage during coupling generating excessive heat, generating more glazing and slippage?

    Sorry guys --- there is a part of my brain that is never satisfied with "let's take it apart and see" as the first step.
    I have to analyze the fuck out of every aspect of the situation. It's in my nature and educational training.
    All possible outcomes don't have to be and often can't be determined ahead of time.

    But unless I feel as though I know exactly what I am looking for, I FEEL like I'm flying blind.
    A bit OCD, maybe, but keeps me from not doing things that are obvious to you guys not to do but due to my lack of bread and butter hands on engine and tranny work, I don't yet have that intuition.

    One of the funnier parts of all this is how long it has taken me to consider the most obvious fucking answer to certain things ---which often is in fact the right one.

    For this situation, that simple answer would be "you're overheating the clutch".

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by derf; 04-05-2017 at 02:37 AM.
    1997 Saturn SC2 M/T 256k DD
    1995 Saturn SC2 M/T 234k given to nephew, just got parked fully functional -- slated for turbo
    2008 Saturn Vue XR A/T 103k 3-5-R then totalled at 5 mph
    1992 Saturn SL2 M/T 42k traded in to to get the 97 SC2 above
    ----------
    Everything you say to me
    Takes me one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break
    I need a little room to breathe
    Cause I'm one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break

    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up
    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up

  2. #2
    Approved Vendor ZombieSatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    6,444
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's borked, and possibility your flywheel as well. Best bet is to get it resurfaced at the least.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    It's not my fault, blame the radiation.

  3. #3
    derf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Washington, PA
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, figured out the problem.

    Me.

    I got on the same highway but the on the on ramp going the opposite direction. Everything shifted fine. No slippage.

    UNTIL

    I bumped the clutch pedal with the toe of my shoe. I was going 55; up shot the revs.

    I am accelerating so hard and to higher rpms on those particular on ramps that I must be resting my clutch foot on the clutch pedal anticipating the next shift, so that when I do shift, the clutch is ever so slightly not fully engaged at first. Then when I put my clutch foot on the floor, all is fine.

    I really can't believe after 20 years, I've developed Delayed On-Ramp Cutchulation aka DORC

    Maybe I'll eventually do the clutch as a learning experience.

    I've been using those ramps for 4 years
    Life is just inexplicably fucked up sometimes.

    Sorry for wasting everyone's time on this one.
    1997 Saturn SC2 M/T 256k DD
    1995 Saturn SC2 M/T 234k given to nephew, just got parked fully functional -- slated for turbo
    2008 Saturn Vue XR A/T 103k 3-5-R then totalled at 5 mph
    1992 Saturn SL2 M/T 42k traded in to to get the 97 SC2 above
    ----------
    Everything you say to me
    Takes me one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break
    I need a little room to breathe
    Cause I'm one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break

    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up
    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up

  4. #4
    siris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Bumping the clutch still shouldn't make it slip, it's still probably worn out, just not slam out.
    72 Charger: pissed me off, on jackstands.
    95 SW1m: Dohc swap. DD. I can haz boost?

  5. #5
    derf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Washington, PA
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The clutch pedal has become so sensitive to any pressure w r t starting to disengage. That "slop zone" at the top of the clutch pedal travel, where you could put your foot on the clutch pedal and press down just a tiny bit and have nothing happen, is gone. When I say bump the clutch pedal I mean depressing it even the tiniest bit starts the disengagement process.
    When I say "slip" in the post above, I mean the clutch begins to disengage. Should have been more clear.

    Hadn't really figured out the physical difference in my head until just now---the pedal response has changed along with, at times, bad habits that I used to get away with but no longer can.

    If you still think I should do the clutch I will.
    1997 Saturn SC2 M/T 256k DD
    1995 Saturn SC2 M/T 234k given to nephew, just got parked fully functional -- slated for turbo
    2008 Saturn Vue XR A/T 103k 3-5-R then totalled at 5 mph
    1992 Saturn SL2 M/T 42k traded in to to get the 97 SC2 above
    ----------
    Everything you say to me
    Takes me one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break
    I need a little room to breathe
    Cause I'm one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break

    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up
    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up

  6. #6
    siris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I do, think about it this way, your pressure plate is constantly squishing the clutch to the flywheel. The thicker the clutch disc the more "squish", so when the disc starts to get worn your engagement point move higher up the pedal because it takes less stroke on the pressure plate to remove that "squish".

    Every manual Saturn I've had the clutch has a pretty definitive release point near the bottom of the stroke. Within an inch or so from the floor. One I had to remove the floor mat because it was keeping the clutch from disengaging.
    72 Charger: pissed me off, on jackstands.
    95 SW1m: Dohc swap. DD. I can haz boost?

  7. #7
    derf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Washington, PA
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry for the necropost, but it's my own thread, and I hate to leave things unresolved when I post to forums.

    The culprit in all of this was indeed me. The clutch has been problem free without my foot leaning on the edge of the pedal overanticipating the next shift.

    Also, @siris, I know when I need to move the floor mat based on whether I can get the car into 1st.......

    End of story
    1997 Saturn SC2 M/T 256k DD
    1995 Saturn SC2 M/T 234k given to nephew, just got parked fully functional -- slated for turbo
    2008 Saturn Vue XR A/T 103k 3-5-R then totalled at 5 mph
    1992 Saturn SL2 M/T 42k traded in to to get the 97 SC2 above
    ----------
    Everything you say to me
    Takes me one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break
    I need a little room to breathe
    Cause I'm one step closer to the edge
    And I'm about to break

    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up
    Shut up when I'm talking to you
    Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up

  8. #8
    6S Moderator S.Bretz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Lutz, Fl
    Posts
    15,288
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It still sounds like the clutch is weak. You should be able to bump the clutch pedal in and then pop it back out without it slipping.
    Put and ACT w/ street disc in there and see if its any better.
    -6S Resident Mechanical Forensics member #001.
    1995 SC2 Turbo 3.6L DOHC, 6sp manual, Ford 8.8 rearend running on MS3x.
    1998 F-250 5.4L triton...stock.

  9. Likes ZombieSatty liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •