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  1. #21

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    Haven't updated in a while, but got some stuff done. Got the motor out, all the wiring removed from the car, and started cleaning the inside to get ready for POR15.




    For the wiring I ended up stripping all of it down, fixing any broken connections/cuts and re-wrapping everything. I used Tesa 51026 high heat tape for anything in the engine bay and Tesa 51608 (the fleece style tape) for anything in the car. Came out pretty well, although the 51026 definitely sticks to itself better than to the wires. I had to zip tie the ends because they started to unravel.



    This is the Tesa 51026


    All the wiring done!


    I still have to fix some holes/small rust spots on the inside, POR15 the floor, trunk, and inside the doors. Probably going to rattle can the engine bay black then throw the wiring back in.

    I'm still debating on what to do with the motor. I'm having trouble with exactly what I should do with the whole newer gen rod and piston combo. I was reading that the pistons will have to be shaved? I don't know anything about what clearances are needed, and I cant find anyone local that knows anything about these motors. Probably just going to keep it simple and throw the forged rods I have back in it with some DOHC forged pistons, leave it stock bore, get the head ported, get bigger valves put in, throw some SDA cams in it and call it a day. Since it will be all forged internals maybe I'll just throw some more spray at it.

    Has anyone ever used an MSD digital 6 on these cars? That's what I use to pull timing on my LT1 with spray, so I already know how to use one.
    SATURN=SorryAboutThatUnbearableRattlingNoise

  2. #22
    6S Moderator S.Bretz's Avatar
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    I think the dis2 was compatible with these cars. But its been many years since I have looked into that stuff since i went the megasquirt route.
    -6S Resident Mechanical Forensics member #001.
    1995 SC2 Turbo 3.6L DOHC, 6sp manual, Ford 8.8 rearend running on MS3x.
    1998 F-250 5.4L triton...stock.

  3. #23
    Resident Electromotive Expert importsdontlikeme's Avatar
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    I think I'm gay

    Interested in a solid engine management system? Ask me about Electromotive engine management.

  4. #24
    Resident Electromotive Expert importsdontlikeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by importsdontlikeme View Post
    I think I'm gay
    Apparently my wife thinks she's funny.

    Interested in a solid engine management system? Ask me about Electromotive engine management.

  5. #25
    siris's Avatar
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    Lol, she got the wagon thread too.
    72 Charger: pissed me off, on jackstands.
    95 SW1m: Dohc swap. DD. I can haz boost?

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  7. #26
    6S Moderator S.Bretz's Avatar
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    She isn't telling us anything that we don't already know.
    -6S Resident Mechanical Forensics member #001.
    1995 SC2 Turbo 3.6L DOHC, 6sp manual, Ford 8.8 rearend running on MS3x.
    1998 F-250 5.4L triton...stock.

  8. #27

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    Haven't updated in a while, but made a lot of progress. Got the inside all painted/coated, painted the engine bay, started putting all the wiring back in and ordered a bunch of parts (which I still have to take some pics of).





    Prepped the engine bay for paint. I don't have a paint booth or access to anything like that. So just a garage rattle can jobber. Had some fish eye happen but its not going to be perfect and I knew that.




    Relocated the battery to the trunk to neaten up the engine bay a bit.


    Started putting everything back together.


    I'll update again in a little while once I get more parts in. Working on a sunroof plug/cover right now, I'll get some pics of that if it comes out half way decent lol.
    SATURN=SorryAboutThatUnbearableRattlingNoise

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  10. #28
    Resident Electromotive Expert importsdontlikeme's Avatar
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    Looking good!

    Once I learned that you can overbore GE sleeves more then a quarter inch I've always wanted to see what kind of power we could make with a high compression big bore N/A LLO.

    However the $$ for the power output isn't worth it compared to a cheap turbo set up.


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  11. #29
    Get off my lawn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by importsdontlikeme View Post
    Looking good!

    Once I learned that you can overbore GE sleeves more then a quarter inch I've always wanted to see what kind of power we could make with a high compression big bore N/A LLO.

    However the $$ for the power output isn't worth it compared to a cheap turbo set up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I think you'd be able to shift your power peak a bit lower, but ultimately not really make any more as the head would still be the limiting factor, right?

  12. #30
    Resident Electromotive Expert importsdontlikeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProDarwin View Post
    I think you'd be able to shift your power peak a bit lower, but ultimately not really make any more as the head would still be the limiting factor, right?
    Isn't there a mathematical formula for displacement increasing the mechanical advantage of any given piston?

    From personal experience even with my low compression motor power output increased significantly even during its N/A break in stage.

    You can hog out a head pretty good. If properly mated to a supporting intake I think decent power could be made.


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  13. #31
    6S Moderator S.Bretz's Avatar
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    If you go too big on the bore you will need to get a customer head gasket made since the bore will be larger than that whole in the gasket.
    -6S Resident Mechanical Forensics member #001.
    1995 SC2 Turbo 3.6L DOHC, 6sp manual, Ford 8.8 rearend running on MS3x.
    1998 F-250 5.4L triton...stock.

  14. #32
    Resident Electromotive Expert importsdontlikeme's Avatar
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    Where have you been Sam?

    Gaskets to Go has got the hook up. I have had zero head gasket issues with the 2.2l even with really thin cylinder walls. MLS FTW


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  15. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by importsdontlikeme View Post
    Isn't there a mathematical formula for displacement increasing the mechanical advantage of any given piston?

    From personal experience even with my low compression motor power output increased significantly even during its N/A break in stage.

    You can hog out a head pretty good. If properly mated to a supporting intake I think decent power could be made.

    I just meant that the 'big bore' part wont really increase power over the other mods. The top end is what ultimately limits how much power you can make, provided you can spin the bottom end fast enough.

    I personally still think there is plenty of power on the table to pursue N/A builds. And there is a lot of reliability on the table

  16. #34
    siris's Avatar
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    I had made a post a few years ago explaining why we would never see a 200+ hp NA LLO. Did the math and carried the ones and all. Lemme see if I can find it.
    72 Charger: pissed me off, on jackstands.
    95 SW1m: Dohc swap. DD. I can haz boost?

  17. #35
    siris's Avatar
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    Here is a long ass post, that will hopefully clarify why we have never seen a 200hp LLO, and will likely never see one.

    Every engine has a Brake Mean Effective Pressure.

    You can read more about it here
    http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine..._yardstick.htm

    Stock engine has a BMEP of 8.9
    150.8*(124hp*5252/6500rpm)/116ci=130psi
    130psi/14.6=8.9bar
    Now, all that being said, most naturally aspirated engines don't get above 10.5bar or 153psi on a side note, Nascar engines are achieving a BMEP of 15.6bar or 226psi the Honda S2000 f20c has a BMEP of 13.6bar or 193psi.

    So assuming you can build an engine with a BMEP of 11bar or 160psi, which would require a set of cams with an intake manifold tuned to match the cam, tuned length header, professionally ported head, you would have to achieve a volumectric efficiency over 110%, the f20c in the s2000 has a VE of 112% btw.

    So assuming you get a BMEP of 11:
    150.8*(200hp*5252/8534rpm)/116ci=160psi

    At 8535rpm you have piston speeds over 5000fpm. Formula one cars redline to 18,000rpm, and have piston speeds around 4800fpm.

    For what it's worth the Honda F20C if I'm not mistaken, still holds the record for highest HP per liter of any production engine. That engine was so well engineered that aftermarket intakes and exhaust systems actually lose power over stock.
    Last edited by siris; 05-21-2018 at 08:16 AM.
    72 Charger: pissed me off, on jackstands.
    95 SW1m: Dohc swap. DD. I can haz boost?

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  19. #36
    6S Moderator S.Bretz's Avatar
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    There was an LL0 that made about 210 at the flywheel. It was an all out race car but it was over 200hp.
    -6S Resident Mechanical Forensics member #001.
    1995 SC2 Turbo 3.6L DOHC, 6sp manual, Ford 8.8 rearend running on MS3x.
    1998 F-250 5.4L triton...stock.

  20. #37
    6S Moderator S.Bretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by importsdontlikeme View Post


    Where have you been Sam?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    I have been playing with a v6 that comes with an MLS gasket stock.
    -6S Resident Mechanical Forensics member #001.
    1995 SC2 Turbo 3.6L DOHC, 6sp manual, Ford 8.8 rearend running on MS3x.
    1998 F-250 5.4L triton...stock.

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  22. #38
    Get off my lawn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by siris View Post
    <A bunch of math>
    I agree we wont see a 200hp LLO anytime soon. I only say that N/A is worth the effort because I think a reliable ~140whp car is great.

    On the subject of whether or not 200hp is feasible... I suggest you look at your own post here: http://sixthsphere.com/archive/index.php/t-72376.html

    The LL0 head doesn't flow *that* poorly. 200hp should be feasible.

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