3rd gen intake on 2nd gen head

[toka100]

Does anyone know what it would take to put a 3gen intake on a 2nd gen head. The satnpedia swap guide says the 1st and 2gen intakes will both mount to the 3 gen head but not the other way around. Physical it is the same mounting holes right. Egr issues are not a concern since it will be deleted. Sensors is where I’m not sure. If the plugs are different then I could just get the pigtails for the later version or swap to the 2nd gen. Fuel rail is been done maytimes I think so that should be easy. Anything else that someone knows about that I didn’t think about. It is going to be a stripped down motor. No extra support mounts and stuff.

Plan is to do a motor swap with a 97 motor. After measuring today there is going to be some clearance issues with the throttle body and the firewall. The 3rd gen would take care of that issue.

[importsdontlikeme]

I didn't think it would be an issue with the third gen firewall? Maybe do a test fit to confirm?


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[ProDarwin]

The coolant passage for the aluminum manifold needs to be addressed IIRC. @Jon2001sc2 has done it I believe.

I am curious what it would take. I think a simple adapter flange could be made once the issues are figured out. I'm also curious if the 3rd gen intake will out-flow the 2nd gen. it definitely weighs a lot less.

[ZombieSatty]

ZombieSatty likes this thread.

[toka100]

I didn't think it would be an issue with the third gen firewall? Maybe do a test fit to confirm?


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.

It’s not a Saturn firewall.


It will be going into my luv. Measuring everything it looks like I will have to notch the firewall for the upper coolant hose. Which isn’t an issue, there is nothing on the other side. Where the throttle body sit is another store. I can’t add any clearance. With only 1/2 inch between the firewall and tb there is no room for a coupler or filter

[importsdontlikeme]

Ahh okay I didn't realize it wasn't going into a Saturn.

Continue

Pros to the turd gen intake, equal flow to each runner and no heat soak so it should be a good option for you if you can make it happen.


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[toka100]

Yah I was going to wait to say anything till I had the motor and tranny mated up. Lol.

If if I can’t get the 3gen to work I could always build some super simple intake manifold. One that flips the tb to the timing chain side.

[siris]

What are you using for a transmission?

[toka100]

80’s Isuzu rodeo 5 speed. 1” 24 spline input with a 8.5” clutch disk. None of the bolts line up but with a 1/2 adapter plate they will mate up. I know for sure that tranny will work with the transfer case on the truck. Motor mounts on the passenger side will just need a few more holes drilled to match the intermediate shaft mounting holes. Drivers side will take some work.

[ProDarwin]

I am very curious where you mount ends up on the driver's side.

[Jon2001sc2]

I has been almost a decade since I put the 3rd gen intake on a wide head motor so I may be forgetting a bit. There were two main issues. One that Travis mentioned was the water port. The shape and position of it causes it to be exposed with the third gen intake inplace. My solution at the time was to port the passage to better line up with the 3rd gen intake then rough up and fill part of it with jb weld (dont remeber which veriety i used now). I also drilled and tapped an additional mounting hole in the head as the 3rd gen intakes have an additional one to help the water port seal. There used to be a product available that replaced the somewhat prone to brake off water fitting on the intake with an all metal part that bolted to the head. It may still be out there, I remember seeing it on eBay and some part stores. I really wish I had picked one up because I feel that it might have been able to accommodate a great deal of the alignment problem but since mine never leaked I never revisited it.

The second issue is the mounting flange on the intake. Simply put, it is too large physically and interferes with the head. You can trim the flange down to clear but you do have to cut through the groove for the rubber gasket the 3rd gen intake uses. The fix was to use an RTV bead on the intake to get it to seal up to the head. If you used an adapter plate you might be able to space the intake off far enough to avoid both the interference issue as well as the alignment issue at the same time while slightly increasing runner length.

The EGR is a bit weird on the intake so I plugged both ends to avoid trying to figure out a solution to allow it to be retained.

The final issue (at least for Saturn builds) is the throttle body options. SPS and Saturn Motorsports both had the tapered bore 52mm throttle bodies, the largest throttle body that will fit the intake without adapters is the XRC 55mm straight bore throttle body. There isn’t enough material in the intake to port it much larger, want to say it was 56 or maybe 58mm stock with thin walls. With the 55mm, a fidanza with an ACT 6 puck, and underdrive pulley set it was the single best throttle response LLO that I’ve ever come across, better even than the race motors we built for ITA. If we had continued the ITA program I wanted to try the same build on it but sadly we never built another ITA motor.

[ProDarwin]

Anyone have a DXF of a plastic intake flange?

[ProDarwin]

Anyone have a 3g intake they want to sell? Or know what tools I would need to bring to pull one? I imagine the bolts on the underside of the flange are a bit of a pain to get to in the junkyard.

[importsdontlikeme]

10mm and 13mm I think? Deep socket 13


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[alexofnazareth]

Anyone have a 3g intake they want to sell? Or know what tools I would need to bring to pull one? I imagine the bolts on the underside of the flange are a bit of a pain to get to in the junkyard.

I grabbed two manifolds from the yard yesterday
Let me know if you still want one sent your way.

[alexofnazareth]

Jon pretty much hit things on the head with the issues. Here are some pictures to help illustrate them:

1. Over sized Flange
The manifold flange interferes with 2 of the bridges/braces cast into it for the valve cover bolts.
There no way to cut enough material away and preserve the vacuum channels connecting to the PCV valve port.
So the only option is to slice through those channels and find a way to seal things up with RTV or Epoxy.






2. Water Port
The coolant port is in a different location than the 3rd gen heads.
Since it's common for the coolant tube to crack on the plastic manifolds, people typically hack it off and buy a metal tube from Dorman.
However that dorman part wont mount up in the right location for the 5 bolt heads.
You'll have to make your own flange and tube to address that issue.
But like Jon said, you'll most likely need to drill and tap a new hole to do that sort of thing.



3. Manifold Inlet Diameter
The inlet to the plastic manifold is the same as the AL one [52mm]
Not sure that you could realistically go much bigger on the plastic manifold.
Heres a shot of the AL and plastic inlets.




4. EGR Tube
This thing kinda just hangs out in the middle of the manifold.
I went ahead and hacked 8.5mm off of the thick section and it was mostly flush with the manifold walls.






5. Port Size
Just using the gasket as a reference for size, the plastic manifold's ports are smaller than the gasket/head ports.




6. Flange thickness
The flange is much thicker than the AL manifolds.
You'll need the studs off of a 3rd gen head.

[leighv]

what ever came of that 3rd gen intake manifold someone found in a JY , cast in aluminum?

[alexofnazareth]

The manifold off of the bastard 99 head?